When two artists who admire one another’s work unexpectedly get to collaborate, it’s a beautiful factor. That’s precisely what occurred when anime legend Shinichirō Watanabe and his group reached out to John Wick franchise director Chad Stahelski and his group. Watanabe hoped somebody at Stahelski’s boutique Hollywood motion studio 87eleven would be capable of give some pointers for the motion design of his upcoming anime Lazarus. Stahelski’s response?
“Fuck that, I’ll do it,” he recalled to Polygon in a video interview.
This shocked Watanabe, who introduced up that the present didn’t precisely have the price range to herald a top-level Hollywood group for the motion. However Stahelski advised him to not fear about the fee, due to his longtime love of Watanabe’s work. Stahelski’s solely situation: He needed to be deeply immersed within the course of. Watanabe’s Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo are two of essentially the most influential of the numerous constructing blocks that make up Stahelski’s model, and this was a chance to work carefully with an artist he had many, many questions for.
The sensation was mutual: Stahelski says he and Watanabe spent a very long time “geeking out” on a name, asking about one another’s work and method, earlier than embarking on a fruitful yearlong inventive partnership that concerned fixed communication and collaboration. The result’s the fluid motion design of Lazarus, a classy anime the place the combat and chase scenes completely match Watanabe’s visible aptitude.
Polygon spoke with Stahelski about how the collaboration got here collectively, the method of merging his model with Watanabe’s, and why Watanabe’s work is so essential to him. You possibly can learn the primary a part of our interview, about Stahelski’s love for anime and his admiration of animators, right here.
Polygon: What do you bear in mind about that first name to ask about your curiosity in Lazarus?
Chad Stahelski: I had talked to Joseph Cho, who’s a producer on it. I’m very fascinated by animation. We’re attempting to do one in all our personal proper now as properly. So we had been going forwards and backwards with Joseph, who grew to become a great good friend, and knew my love of anime, and he simply occurred to be a producer on Lazarus. Each time someone interviews me for John Wick, I at all times deliver up anime and what I like about it, from Ghost within the Shell to one in all my largest influences, Cowboy Bebop, and clearly Samurai Champloo and stuff. And bear in mind, I used to be watching anime earlier than the web, earlier than cellphones, so it was like going to Odyssey Video and attempting to get some previous videotape.
Anyhow, Joseph knew that, so he actually requested, “Hey, hear, would you love to do a Zoom with Watanabe-san?” And I used to be like, “You’re kidding, that’d be nice.” So we acquired on the telephone, and I nonetheless hadn’t accomplished filming on John Wick: Chapter 4. We had completed principal [photography], and I nonetheless had a portion left to shoot in Japan. So I mentioned, “Hey, I like your work. Big fan.” And it acquired previous that like that, and it was proper into “Why do you compose a sure manner? Why do you…?” I had a thousand inquiries to ask one in all my favourite administrators, and I geeked out proper off the bat, and he was asking about John Wick, as a result of he was thinking about stay motion, I’m thinking about anime.
We determined that we had been going to get collectively after I acquired to Tokyo the following month to have a espresso or one thing, and actually as we’re ending the telephone name, Joseph goes, “Hey, we’re questioning, would one in all your guys like to assist us out on Lazarus, do a few of the motion design to do the fights?” And I used to be actually like, “Fuck that. I’ll do it. Me and my high choreographer, Jeremy Marinas. I’m going to get my storyboard man, Todd Harris, who’s my favourite storyboard man ever, Jeremy, and two of our high guys. We’re going to do it. My solely caveat is, I wish to watch the method. I wish to be very concerned on this.”
They usually mentioned, “Actually?” I mentioned, “Sure.” And it was simply, increase. We acquired collectively somewhat later that month in Tokyo, one other lovefest, sitting round ingesting manner an excessive amount of espresso and Japanese whiskey collectively, and determined, OK, let’s do it. So for the following 12 months, as soon as, twice every week, each week, I talked to Watanabe-san and his inventive group and began breaking down and simply going forwards and backwards on each episode and throwing concepts out and going forwards and backwards and choreographing. It was most likely one of many funnest jobs I’ve ever carried out.
Getting the “Watanabe needs my group concerned along with his new venture” name has to really feel like a kind of moments that’s like, I have to be doing one thing proper in life.
On the time, you’re so wigged out, you’re like, “Sure, sure, no matter it takes.” That’s at all times the trick, proper? There’s a cause you like another person’s work, and to get in, it’s not nearly loving the work or attempting to satisfy the man. It’s understanding the method and simply attempting to get totally different views of perspective. I feel that’s a key to maintain progressing creatively.
We’re all filters for the world round us, so the extra you develop your world, the extra it’s a must to work with. And to see issues from different folks’s viewpoint, or to have the ability to have a look at something — a set piece of drawing, a chunk of artwork, a chunk of music — not solely out of your perspective, from someone else’s, and open that different channel that you just didn’t assume you had been utilizing earlier than is an enormous factor. And anyone that will get to satisfy Watanabe-san and talks to him for greater than 5 minutes can actually discuss how he sees the world. I’d think about it’s like speaking to [Hayao] Miyazaki or [Steven] Spielberg or [Christopher] Nolan, or John Ford again within the day, or David Lean. You’re going to get it from a barely totally different perspective, and that’s going to open your thoughts somewhat bit. And that was the massive studying factor I acquired from Watanabe-san.
You had been saying the 2 of you had been geeking out on the decision collectively — you asking him questions, him asking you questions. What had been the stuff you had been most interested in?
Truthfully, that is going to sound bizarre. It looks as if a really, very 30,000-foot concept, however the extra you get into it, the trivia, his authorship is what makes his work stand. You possibly can at all times inform Watanabe-san’s work, proper? You possibly can watch Samurai Champloo and inform it’s him. You possibly can watch any good director and see [for example], Oh, that’s a Tarantino film, it doesn’t matter what. Hopefully you’ll watch the John Wick films and go, Oh, that’s a fucking Chad film, proper?
I’m at all times fascinated by what [makes that true], as a result of it’s by no means the massive [things]. You possibly can’t simply say, “John Wick is gun-fu.” Now, I do storytelling in a really bizarre manner. I shoot in a really totally different manner. I don’t fear about three acts. I don’t fear in regards to the Hollywood guidelines of how it’s a must to really feel unhealthy, or you’ll be able to’t be a damsel in misery. I simply don’t give a fuck, I simply wish to make a great story. The best way he attracts each picture — you return to Cowboy Bebop, and when Spike’s sitting there, whether or not he’s alone or not — his body, his composition, his set piece is telling you one thing.
It wasn’t only a cool-looking factor — it’s isolationist, it’s distance, it’s fortitude, it’s servitude. He’s telling you one thing, that visible image, that one body, he’s attempting to let you know one thing, and he’s establishing whether or not the character is lonely or blissful or resolute of their concept. He’s attempting to let you know one thing in each body. And whenever you meet the man, that’s what I used to be asking about. I think about I’ve watched 100 Miyazaki documentaries. There’s no accidents of their drawing. They’ve the time, they usually’re obsessive. And in Watanabe-san’s framing, there are not any accidents. He’s not simply doing a filler body. He’s not simply wiping this to see the beautiful image. He’s acquired one thing that he’s attempting to let you know.
And that’s one thing I’ve tried to steal from anime: Actually each body must be an image, and each body ought to say one thing, whether or not it’s the colour I select, the music, the beats, the angles I select. I hope folks can watch a minimum of John Wick: Chapter 4 and go, Oh, he’s acquired a heavy, heavy anime affect. This man is attempting to say one thing along with his body. That’s the best praise I can get: Oh, he cared in regards to the sew frames. He cared in regards to the in-betweens.
And that’s what I get from Watanabe-san. That was the vast majority of what we talked about. Why are you drawing? I get the cool shot is down low, however why this? And he’s like, Properly, I don’t wish to do the frontal, I would like the viewers to not see his face, however I nonetheless need them to know he’s unhappy. So how do you do it? He has very distinct, motivational the reason why he’s framing [things a certain way].
On the subject of authorship, how a lot freedom did it’s a must to dictate what sort of motion was in Lazarus, and the way a lot did he already keep in mind?
Each. I would like some judo and I would like some gun-fu is a pleasant assertion, however that’s not [a real direction]. Gun-fu has been round since weapons. We didn’t invent it. We simply put it inside sure parameters that made Keanu and the best way our digicam guys shoot look good. John Woo, Equilibrium, there are many totally different sorts of gun-fu. You might name previous Westerns sure sorts of gun-fu due to the etiquette and the ceremony of duels, proper? So he comes again and goes, “Look, we like [Lazarus lead Axel] to not be only a puncher and a kicker or a fighter. We wish him to be a motion man. And if he doesn’t must kill, he doesn’t kill. That’s not his gig. Persons are simply obstacles to get to a objective. So how will we do this?”
That’s judo, aikido, jujitsu, that’s parkour, that’s motion. In order that’s all I needed. That’s character and motivation proper there, and that’s defining the motion general. Placing a ceiling on what we do now, how we do it. He was extremely open. We’d give him variations on variations to attempt various things. For us, it was like a salad bowl: We are able to put something we wish in there, what I imply? After which Watanabe-san, we’re studying his style. Hey, I like extra of this sort of factor, do extra of this.
It’s an ever-decreasing circle of perfection. There’s no linear creativity. You don’t simply go, That is the motion. Some folks do this. I don’t fucking have a clue how they do this. We’ll choreograph them, he’ll rewrite, we’ll draw, we’ll re-choreograph. We might choreograph a combat scene 10 instances, sharpening it up and making it higher.
As you choreograph extra, you be taught extra in regards to the different particular person, extra in regards to the characters. The primary one’s at all times the toughest since you’re attempting to get one another’s vibe, and by the top, you’ve acquired a circulation going, you’ve acquired a riff. We all know what’s becoming for the character. We all know what the animators are doing.
Picture: Grownup Swim
Together with your familiarity with Watanabe’s work and the animation model, how did you method matching the motion design to the visible look of the present?
That begins with Watanabe-san. He’s superb. He’s very, very creatively articulate. And I don’t imply simply verbally, I imply at hitting key phrases or key concepts that lock it in. Happily, we’re all huge followers of his. So the visible model is, I’d say, inside his continuity of stylistics and actuality, [since I] actually memorized all the things of Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo.
So we first ask issues like “What are the parameters? What’s the world?” And clearly we maintain altering. The increasingly paintings he offers, the increasingly we go. However once more, each time I get requested these questions, it’s all based mostly on the belief this can be a linear course of. It’s not. There’s a clean piece of paper for him, and there’s a clean piece of paper for us. If I waited till he designed all the things, then [did] our factor, it could not match. So he does somewhat concept. I do some concept. That concept makes that concept. It’s a nonstop forwards and backwards that’s very, very round, very revisiting.
You’ll give me a narrative, you’ll ship it to me. I’m going to tweak your story, ship it again to you. You’ll hate half, however you’ll love half. And subsequent factor , three or 4 interviews again, the story’s modified. Now you’re speaking about another side of the character. That’s the best way it’s a must to at all times have a look at it. That’s why it’s so essential to have continuous conferences creatively to repeatedly specific and try to not simply go, OK, Pete, that is it, man, you bought 30 seconds and then you definately lock it. Is your greatest work ever going to come back that manner?
Are you keen to wager that your greatest work got here out in 30 fucking seconds and that’s it, it’ll by no means get higher?
No, precisely. You haven’t hit your fucking apex shit. And that’s us, man. You’ve acquired to experiment. If it was simply you and also you’re an artist and also you’re simply singing a music or writing a music, it’s solely you, that’s one factor. But it surely takes 300 fucking folks to do a sequence for me. I’m not shitting you. That’s the naked minimal. It will get nearer to a thousand whenever you get larger sequences. So that you assume I’m going to get that proper on the primary go?
No, and I feel what’s so cool about this collaboration is it feels just like the form of international collaboration that wouldn’t have actually been attainable 20, 30 years in the past, with out trendy expertise.
And communication, yeah. And once more, you bought to present these guys, each Joseph and Watanabe-san, quite a lot of credit score, man, to be that open and to allow us to be fortunate sufficient to partake of their little world. I imply, you’re coping with a franchise and a model that you just don’t actually wish to fuck with, you don’t. That’s a reasonably large identify, a high quality model, and to ask us in and to belief us to be a part of it, and to share their internal workings of how they create and what their concepts are, and to be completely fucking fearless with that. Even right here, it’s very, very uncommon. A uncommon form of inventive, truthfully.
Watanabe is an enormous identify globally, but additionally an enormous identify to you personally, and to your background as an artist.
There was somewhat stress. We didn’t wish to fuck it up. However I don’t assume it is best to take issues that don’t scare the shit out of you somewhat bit. In any other case you’re going to get bored.
New episodes of Lazarus air Sundays on Grownup Swim, and can be found the next day on Max.
